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Feeling lost in your wellness journey? Your Wellness SCORE can guide you through small daily nutrition and lifestyle choices that will give you more energy, help prevent disease, improve gut health, control cravings and more. In this episode of  "The Wellness Table," Dr. Cheryl Bothwell explains how and why she created this powerful tool, and why it’s so important to just get started when you’re on a long-term journey toward better health.

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Cheryl introduces the concept of the lifestyle score, which she has developed to help people assess their overall lifestyle and identify areas for improvement. The score takes into account both the foods you eat and the health habits you practice. Cheryl explains why the focus is not on what to stop doing or give up, but rather on what can be done more to improve health. And she explores why so many people struggle with motivation when it comes to lifestyle changes, and how to overcome them and hit your goals.

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Learn more about Dr. Cheryl HERE.

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Topics discussed in this episode:

• 00:58: The importance of the lifestyle score and how it empowers you to assess where you are in your health journey, and take action toward where you want to go.
• 05:50: Cheryl discusses her experience in working with thousands of people who struggle with mindset and motivation to adopt healthy habits.
• 07:20: Why weight loss is such a common motivator for people to change their lifestyle.
• 08:57: The connection between feeling full and satisfied and the first pain point of hunger.
• 13:31: Cheryl encourages listeners to take the free wellness score on her website to assess their lifestyle.
• 24:14: Cheryl discusses her focus on making healthy foods taste good and her commitment to enjoying food today while promoting long-term health.

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Transcript:  

Cheryl (00:10.723)

Welcome back to the Wellness Table. I'm your host, Dr. Cheryl Bothwell, and I'm here with my producer, Dana Bowling. Hey, Dana.

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Dana (00:18.176)

Hey Cheryl, I'm so excited to be on this journey with you.

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Cheryl (00:22.538)

It's really exciting and it's neat to get this podcast started and loving the, loving doing this together with you.

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Dana (00:31.328)

You know, last week, your episode shared so much about your story. And even though I work with you, I learned so much. And you know, our audience, they messaged so many questions, just like, they, they really resonated with the Cheetos story and the Oreos. And they were like, we have these comfort foods too. But I think what people really want to know is just how to get started. And I think you really need to get into that this week.

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Cheryl (00:58.338)

That's exciting. So this week I definitely want to share about getting started and how to take our first step to really move our health to another level. And so we've got to really start with the score. And so we touched on that just a little bit. But the score is really a big part of what I've created to help people figure out how is my lifestyle scoring. And so how do I look at the foods I eat and the lifestyle I have, and how do I know if I'm missing something or am I doing all the things that I need to do? So that's what we wanna talk about today a little bit is how does your lifestyle score and what can I do and what can I do more to really look at food as medicine and is there anything else I can be doing that maybe I'm not doing, I can do more of? And definitely not about what to stop doing or what you have to give up.

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Dana (01:56.344)

So good and it's so needed because I think as a whole just people out there there's so much information there's so many things online that you see and no one knows really what to believe or where to start it feels almost too overwhelming so I love that you have this score because I feel like it it's gonna break it down for just anyone that doesn't need that much prior knowledge about health or nutrition and that's what I love about you and your process is I feel like you talk to people in a very I'm gonna meet you where you are

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And you don't get that a lot from, you know, doctors and nutritionists.

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Cheryl (02:31.286)

It's definitely something that we're used to, kind of the food police for the dietitian, or we're going to go to our physician and say, we need to start doing this or stop doing that. And I think we're just used to like, oh boy, what do I need to give up? And I think that's where we end up coming to the point that most people, I'm always saying need a pain point where there's a symptom or a new diagnosis before they're really ready to start looking at their lifestyle or taking the foods that they eat really serious. And some people we call worried well, where they have seen family or they've seen that diagnosis of breast cancer with an aunt or a mom, and they definitely are ready to get started, and they're more on the preventive side. And so there's a few of those, but I think most people are waiting for that first pain point.

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I've often said that when someone's had a heart attack – and I was a young dietitian – I found it very interesting that I used to say, I could tell them to stand on their head and spit nickels all day. And they'd be like, okay, when do I start and how long do I do it? If they can get well. When somebody doesn't feel well, they'll almost do anything to start feeling well or not having pain or have that hope of living longer. But when we don't have a pain point.

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Sometimes it's a little harder discussion. Or it's hard, like I give the example, if we're talking to a teenager and we're saying, boy, if you're eating those Cheetos, let's say like I was eating, or boy, we're eating a lot of cookies here and a lot of snack foods and things like that. So if you keep eating those things, you might have a heart attack when you're 65. It really doesn't resonate a lot. What's the motivation there so that...oh, wow, I'm not even thinking about, you know, at 65. And I think a lot of times our message has been, you know, how to live longer and how to, you know, not have that disease or suffer from a health condition. But someone really young, that is not something they can relate to. So if we wonder why we're not selling this, should I say, to like younger people and they're not buying this, “I want to go get healthy” message.

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Sometimes they just can't relate to what would be my benefit. I need to feel it today. And that's what I felt like when I was young was like, go back to my Cheetos story, which I always resonate with is like, that made me feel better today. I felt full, I felt satisfied. I had, I just knew I had the most energy if I ate the right meal. And so what I find is that feeling full and satisfied is one of the first symptoms, or let's say being hungry is one of the first pain points that somebody, they know they don't like to feel hungry. So that's what I noticed with people was, we hate to be hungry. And so feeling full and satisfied and not suffering from hunger is like really desirable. So Thanksgiving dinner, we love it. We connect it to like full and satisfied and delicious.

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So we want it to be tasty and we want to feel full. And that feeling of hunger, some people even describe it as a mild pain point, is hunger. But then when we start talking about dieting, and then we're like, oh wow, now I've hit college. Now I've added those college 20, the freshman 20 that the girls sort of face sometimes. Yeah, and then all of the sudden it's like, that's the pain point, should we say, that it's more body image.

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Dana (06:03.009)

Oh, I got it. I got it.

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Cheryl (06:11.478)

So when we see younger women, we begin to feel, and we're seeing this in very young girls, where we begin to see that the body image or the goal is to just be thin. So I just want to be thin, and we find that we begin to disconnect from the hunger and begin to say, I'll accept that pain point for the benefit of looking as thin as I need to look for culture.

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Cheryl (06:38.558)

So women have that where we begin to see the disconnect between my hunger and taking care of my body properly, and my benefit is body image. Then as people get older, so I kind of see that as a pain point. We don't want to be hungry, but we disconnect from hunger. But then as we get older, then we begin to see babies born and post baby weight, then we want to lose that weight. So a lot of people that come to me come for weight loss until there's a pain point. But for them, that is a pain point, is I'm gaining weight, I don't want to weigh what I weigh. So I find that's a big drive of people who are willing to go on a restrictive diet. And that kind of sets people up for that yo-yo dieting. And I think women really have to deal with that a little bit more. I don't know, I think it's hitting men as well now and younger teenagers, male and female, everyone.

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Dana (07:22.432)

Yeah.

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Cheryl (07:36.842)

In this day and age, I definitely find that there has to be a motivation for somebody to want to make a lifestyle change. And so that is what I began to observe, is the motivation, it has to be something that you want, but is it something that I can help create as a dietician or as a health professional, I don't wanna feed into a cycle of something that may be not as healthy for you. And so being aware of that was my first

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Dana (08:03.148)

Mm-hmm.

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Cheryl (08:06.666)

Like, okay, I need to be aware of what's a healthy place for this person to be. Everybody's in their own journey. Everybody's feeling life in a different place. We all have a different motivation to be well. And then we move into the scare of somebody did get a diagnosis that is a family member. Sometimes that's a motivation, like, oh wow, I better.

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I better pay attention to what I'm eating. But it's very interesting, and we talked about this in the last podcast, that food is so sensitive and intimate to who we are. And we really wanna love the food we eat. We want to feel full. We don't really want to be hungry, but we'll be hungry for some people if that means that I can lose those 10 pounds that I think would make me happier. And so...

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Dana (08:57.889)

Mm-hmm.

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Cheryl (08:58.646)

Those are all the different messages that we'll be talking about in this podcast, just all the complexity of it. But at the end of the day, I still find that the number one people or person that would come to say the Take 10 program that I had a 10-day retreat, that it was nutrition and lifestyle and medicine, spending 10 days on our campus, and we would do baseline measures of all their blood work, their body composition, just really looking at someone's baseline numbers and then adding an intervention. We fed them 30 meals over 10 days, and we actually looked at the outcomes at the end and re-measured all the numbers. And that was such a learning experience for me to see real people and to see the patterns of how hard it is to change what we eat.

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I began to see people like, Dana, do you know what? Do you remember what you ate last Friday? And if I'm asking you to write down breakfast, lunch, and dinner of what you had last Friday, most people cannot remember what they ate. So I found that these food frequency, food diaries, things like that, I wasn't sure how effective they really were. And so that was why in my doctoral work, coming back to the score, it was, I felt like people needed this simple tool. At the end of 10 days even, when I was talking every day and talking about here's all the things that we need to do, I realized I had to keep it simpler. I had to make sure that if they never met me again, how would they know? And to be assured that they were eating the right foods, the right combination, and the right health lifestyle, which I call the prescription and how much of it and when to practice it and do it in this simple score and they don't have to be writing down everything that they do all the time. All they had to do was take the score. And so I set up where every day to get started somebody would take their score at their baseline and you'll see on our website we have the free wellness score on our website drcherylwellness.com.

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And so anybody can take that score for free and you can find out what your baseline measure is. And that would be the first step that I would suggest is to take your score. It's 20 questions, there are 10 foods and there are 10 health habits. And it will ask you in that score if you're eating for instance blueberries and are you eating the amount, like one cup a day. And that would give you one point. So I love to, during the program, talk to people about how every point of the score or every food on the score or habit on the score earned a point because of having a major health benefit that alone, standing alone, improved your health today or it helped you live younger longer. And so that's how something would earn a point on the score. And I'll have to say in our membership, I'm just getting ready to start a 10-episode series in our private member podcast, Ask Dr. Cheryl, where we're going to take a deep dive into the score and really how each point on that score was selected during my doctoral work and how it was applied in those 10 years and take 10 to be able to really see that when people upped their score, we began to see blood pressure reduce. We saw medications for blood pressure drop.

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We saw really like a...22 points, I was looking at my outcomes this morning, and just a 22 point drop in say, systolic blood pressure in 10 days. Those are hard numbers to change while they were coming off medicine. Blood sugar was balanced. We began to see cholesterol drop, and that was in 10 days. And then when people would come back two years later, and six years later, we were seeing, wow, just upping the score where people were starting with a score of say, six, seven, eight, the average baseline number out of 20 was in those numbers. We're finding on our website people that are taking our free score, the average score right now. We've had hundreds of people actually take our free score so far. And the average is we're getting those analytics on the back end of just as a group. And the average is about six out of 20 points is the average person taking the score. So what that tells us is that there's a lot of opportunity to raise the score, like drinking more water, get another point.

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Dana (13:31.4)

Wow.

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Cheryl (13:39.082)

So that's where I love getting started, is taking your baseline score, start out there, go to the website, drcherylwellness.com, and see where you're at. And our goal in this whole podcast and in our membership is to help people score up. Then on the other side, regardless if you're trying to lose weight, if you're trying to build muscle, if you're trying to gain weight, if you're trying to balance blood sugar, if you're trying to drop cholesterol, if you're trying to manage blood pressure, or even if you're wanting to prevent cancer or even a chemo preventive lifestyle or diet, upping your score allows you to simultaneously treat all of those things. So it's pretty exciting. So I love to talk about the score. I mean, it's very near and dear to me, but that's really the foundation of the work where you can do it yourself. You don't have to have a researcher do it. You don't need a dietician to do it. You don't need a physician to do it. And in our membership, we have a more comprehensive score where you get points for actually, it tracks your score and you actually get partial points. So if you're halfway to a goal, it lets you set a goal and you can actually look at like, what's my health, um, goal and how does increasing my points impact improving a health condition or a diagnosis.

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Dana (14:50.613)

Mm-hmm.

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Dana (14:58.516)

You know what's so cool about it, Cheryl? I just was thinking, most of these diet tools, I'm quoting, you know, diet tools, are eliminate, eliminate. And that probably does have something to do here, but what I'm hearing about the score, and tell me if I'm wrong, because like I am, I am, you're talking to me, like you're talking to everyone that's listening to this show. If you're joining, if you're taking your score and you're trying to up your score,

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Can you, do you up your score by removing things or do you up your score by adding healthy things? Do you know what I'm saying?

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Cheryl (15:32.022)

You up your score, yes, you up your score by doing more. Doing more of the things that make you well. And so, for instance, the blueberries or the berries, getting one cup of berries a day, that's something that we're adding. So we can start with a very simple step. So a lot of times I'll look at the 10 foods and the 10 habits and I'll say, what are the things that you're already doing? That they're like easy for you. Like some people are like, I drink water and I love water.

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So that's gonna be an easy one. I'm like, okay, that one you know you can do for the rest of your life. Now let's choose two or three, and we do this in the membership where it's actually on your wellness dashboard, and it's like on my wellness check-in where I can actually choose score goals. And so I would say that to everyone if you can choose a score goal to say maybe two or three, and say, okay, so Donna, for you, water might be an easy one.

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Somebody else, water is a really tough one. So for you, you can be like, I've got this one in the bag. So for you, you might be working on, let's say, sleeping better. So sleeping without a sleep medication, waking up rested, going to bed at a consistent time. That might be a goal that you work on. For myself, let's say, if I'm working on eating more whole grains and I want to include nuts every single day.

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And so you sort of set a goal that it's like, can you eat 10 nuts every single day? We're not talking about anything that you take away. But there are two that do have some restriction. And that is their refined sugars. Because I found it with my alumni, they were like, I want you to, I was like, I don't wanna put anything in the score that is a reverse point. Like not eating it gives you a point. And I sort of got voted out with my alumni because they felt like they wanted credit for not eating refined sugars more than one time a week. So that's what we have on the score is like, if you've reduced refined sugars, like table sugar and candy and desserts and things like that, then you add a point to the score. And the same thing that is for some of the processed meats and things like that, that we know are proven carcinogenic foods. So there's a couple on there that are, you get a point for eating less of it, but everything, every single meal has adding your favorite food. So how can we make a combination of food, we've got our plate and our meal planning tools as well, that are that hunger crushing formula, balanced blood sugars, boost up your score, and at the same time keep you full and satisfied and meet your health goals. So what I find is if the food tastes good and we can find foods that you really love and we can score up.

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Cheryl (18:23.274)

While you're enjoying the food, I always like to say, can we find three breakfasts that you love, three lunches that you love, three dinners that you love, there's our first start. So that's our next thing is, what can we do to actually eat this? Like, what's that gonna look like on our plate? So we talk a lot about that in our membership, where we take a deep dive sort of into meal planning and recipes, but there's also a lot of free recipes on our website, again, drcherylwellness.com, and you'll see recipes that actually meet the score criteria and the food combination that will keep you full and crush hunger. I love to, we'll talk about this in another podcast, but I love also, food is medicine, but also to see the foods that turn off hunger hormones and turn on the fullness hormone.

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Dana (19:10.956)

Mmm.

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Cheryl (19:12.67)

So we can eat healthy and live healthy and lose weight or be at a healthy weight that we want to be and not feel hunger. If we're feeling hungry, we need to fix that. We shouldn't feel hunger. That's like a basic need. That's our body telling us something's wrong. So I always like us to listen to what our body's saying to us. It doesn't mean that we can always listen to the cravings because sometimes those cravings, for instance, I like to talk about sugar cravings. I don't know, is sugar...a thing that you love, Donna. Lots of people love sugar.

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Dana (19:45.064)

Looking away because I don't want to admit it. I'm looking down. I'm not having eye contact. Those people that know me and follow me, they know that Nutella is my middle name. So yes, I have a problem with sugar. Absolutely, Cheryl. Yes.

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Cheryl (19:50.492)

Yeah.

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Cheryl (20:01.218)

I am just now, it's so funny you said Nutella, because I have a great Nutella recipe because my daughter loves Nutella. And she's like, Mom, you have to make Nutella work for me and my friends. And she was like in junior high school. And she's like, if you can land healthy Nutella, we're in. They liked it better. I did a taste test for their whole class because I'm always saying, it's gotta taste good or it's not gonna be in. And it, yeah, I do blind taste testing. You taste mine, you taste straight up Nutella. So I saw you do a Nutella taste test on it…was it a social post or something? And I'm like, I have to do my Nutella. Like that's like the perfect next recipe because it was a winning recipe. I'm literally recording it and videoing it this week. That is this week's recipe. And I also then, I made a bunch of it because I tend to, I used to make so much food when all my kids were home. Now my kids are adults.

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Cheryl (20:58.334)

So I don't have that, but I still make too much volume because of cooking all the time and loving to do it. But I had this extra Nutella, and I don't know if you would like it, but I then converted it into a Nutella granola that is like amazing. And I actually began to serve it in take 10 as one of our meals that actually passed. I'm always saying if that food, it has to have an 80% approval for taste and enjoyment from our Take 10 people. So I had like thousands of people taste testing and this was one of my taste tested recipes. So actually all my recipes are taste tested like that.

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Dana (21:36.244)

I think that's so important that you bring that up, that things have to taste good because, you know, I live on TikTok and you know how important it is to get fun recipes and great like trends off TikTok. And there's a big trend right now with using cottage cheese and trying to find ways to make it taste good. So cottage cheese on its own is one thing. But the big thing that I saw the other day was there was a cottage cheese cookie dough, meaning blending the cottage cheese with this, with that, with this, and every comment says, looks amazing…tastes horrible. And I'm thinking people are out there and they're trying to incorporate these healthy ingredients, but the foods taste bad, so how do they stick with it? So you're going to help us with that.

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Cheryl (22:17.194)

It's not a winning combination if it doesn't taste good. I would say, oh, and I have to say this to you, Donna, one of the things that I would ask every group of people that would come through Take Ten, and we had over 2,000 alumni, but my first question, and any time I'm talking to someone, I love to ask groups this, is if you were gonna vote, so I'm gonna ask you the question, Donna, you can give me a, see if you can answer it here. Would you rather live 10 years longer and give up all of your favorite food? Or would you rather die 10 years earlier and get to just keep eating all of your favorite food?

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Dana (22:57.768)

Oh, obvious. I would do, okay. If, okay. Ooh, how old am I living to? I have a few questions. No, I would say the first, being a mother, I'd have to say living 10 years longer, as long as I was healthily living 10 years longer. But yes, I don't wanna be like a vegetable for 10 years.

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Cheryl (22:59.291)

What just random vote? You would, would you go? Most people, most people, that's what I was gonna go. Most people say that they wouldn't wanna give up the food. At the end of the day, they actually might want to live the 10 years longer, but when it came to eating food, because I'm talking about eating food you don't like. Every day, three meals a day, you're eating food that you actually like that cottage cheese cookie dough or whatever, you're actually trying really hard. And so most people say no.

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Dana (23:24.908)

Yeah.

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Cheryl (23:46.014)

And that was where I was like a wake-up call because I was in with the food, I'm a foodie. So for me, it was like, that's happiness. Taste is happiness. And the other is I hate to be hungry. And so I don't like to feel my blood sugar dropping because mine does. I don't like those feelings. So I am going to fix that stuff and I would rather really live in the present and enjoy that. But when I began to realize that, wow, I'm financing, I often say, or I'm living on credit. Like, it feels good today, but am I sort of financing my future health? And as I began to say, there has to be a way to not give up this good food. So I'm a cookbook author because of that. My mom was a really good cook, and so I guess food for me kinda trumps everything. If the food's not good, I'm out. And so for me, I just took on my life work making healthy, healing foods be delicious. And if they weren't, I either fixed it or nixed that food and found another one. And at the end of the day, I find, Donna, if people have three breakfasts that they really like and they get started with breakfast right, they're sort of on the right track. And breakfast, by the way, is just your first meal of the day. So that's just breaking the fast. So whenever you wanna eat, I don't have this agenda that you have to get up and eat breakfast within 20 minutes. It's like...just whenever your first meal is. That meal is really one of the most important meals of the day, but it doesn't matter the time. It just matters that you have been fasting for a long time. So your body, if you get that wrong and you do like, let's say you do a latte at Starbucks with a muffin, two hours later, you're gonna be back with a sugar crash and you're gonna be ready for the next craving. And so what I find is this sugar cycle, like every two hours.

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Somebody, if the meal before wasn't quite right, we find ourselves snacking, and we find ourselves craving sugar again, and that's when the sugar addiction and cycle continues. And I find most people, especially young children, are living in that cycle. We sort of create that with our kids. We create it with our baby, with the apple juice, you know, or whatever that cycle is. So those are all the things I will be talking about in future podcasts, because there's so many exciting things as we talk about blood sugar, and we talk about “food is medicine.” But at the end of the day, if it doesn't taste good, I'm out. And I don't ask people to do anything that I wouldn't do. So that, to me, is probably a unique identifier with me and probably why my patients and people I've worked with really like working with me. Because number one is I hear you. And I look at, like, for me, I know that I'm more of a workaholic style person. So I had trouble getting my eight hours of sleep every night. That's my habit that I'm always working on, going to bed at a consistent time and getting that maximum growth hormone surge at the time that we need to, that midnight time. If I'm going to bed at midnight, I can miss that surge, you know? And then that early morning sunlight and just all the benefits to the health habits and getting all of those, just maximizing our body's ability to heal itself.

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And to really, to live well longer, but to still, for me, feel good today. Like, at the end of the day, I wanna feel good today. I wanna have energy today. And then I'm in for this living longer, but I wanna feel good today, and I wanna enjoy my food today.

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Dana (27:27.264)

So this is literally a dream come true for anyone out there that is trying to do any of these things. Sleep better, feel better, feel fuller, feel happier, feel more energetic, lose weight in the process, et cetera. But the first step really for everyone that's listening is to take this score, which as you said, it's on the website. So explain again where we can find this score.

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Cheryl (27:50.274)

So when you come to the website, you're going to see, and we'll put it in the podcast and the show notes, we'll link to it so that you can link directly to the score, but it is on the podcast and it's right up in the top right tab, take your free score. And so you can go through and you will just lead right into the first question. On the free side, the score is simply yes or no, if you meet that goal. The membership is also there. And if you come into the membership, that score will be tracked. But on the free side, you're gonna have all of the questions asked, and then you will get your results immediately as soon as you take the score. And then you'll immediately know, like, where am I at in a score of zero to 20? And the closer you are to 20 today, and the more you live that number and keep working toward that number, really, ultimately, you can be assured that you're getting the perfect food as medicine, the lifestyle habits that are all proven winners, all in one score and the right dose. Like how much do I need of that? Like how much should I be exercising? Everyone has a different agenda. There's all different ways. So you can customize it like, I really don't like blueberries. Okay, then there's strawberries and blackberries. Or I really don't like, so those are the things we get into more in membership as well, is like what do I do if I don't like that? How do I customize it? How do I build meals from it? But that's where the score is, and that's where we start.

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Dana (29:12.66)

Yes, I love this so much. I'm obviously gonna go immediately and take my score. And if you guys are listening to Dr. Cheryl and this amazingness, and you go and take the score, send her a DM on Instagram with your score, and she would love to chat with you, because as you heard here in your membership, Dr. Cheryl, you have so much more access with people that just want a little bit, like this is the surface level of the score, but as you can hear,

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You know, you're such a wealth of information. You have so much to give and so much that you've learned through the years that you wanna teach others. So if you guys want any sort of more in depth, you have to come into the membership and just check it out. And I can't wait to hear this 10 episode series on specifically the points of the score.

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Cheryl (29:59.858)

I really look forward to hearing from each of you and really go take that score. And again, this week, score up. See if there's one extra point you can add. Whatever your score is, choose a score goal and see if you can raise that score by one point. And tell me what that one goal is or what that one point that you added. And that's what you'll hear on this podcast. To begin with all the time is, what's your score this week?

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And that means you're on track. It's a lifelong wellness journey. It isn't one static point in time. It's really the small things. What we do every single day, that adds up really exponentially to how we really live and the quality and the happiness of our life. And that's what I want for everyone, is to just be the healthiest that you can be today, tomorrow, and in 20 years, and live your best, longest healthy years, like you were saying.

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Dana (30:55.184)

So check out everything in the show notes, you guys, for Dr. Cheryl and for the free score, the membership, and we will be back next week, right, Dr. Cheryl?

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Cheryl (31:05.618)

Awesome. Look forward to seeing you next week at The Wellness Table.