Listen, watch, or read.

Always hungry, even after a meal? In this episode, Dr. Cheryl Bothwell discusses the concept of hunger and eating habits, inspired by a recent article about former reality star Whitney Port's admission of being too skinny due to persistent hunger. Dr. Cheryl, a Doctor of Clinical Nutrition and an expert in food and health, delves into the complexities of hunger and how it can influence our relationship with food. She also shares insights on her approach to satisfying hunger and promoting a healthy lifestyle.

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Cheryl and Dana discuss the article about Whitney Port's shocking weight loss and her confession of feeling hungry all the time. They explore the pressure of body image in the entertainment industry and how it can lead to disconnection from natural hunger cues.

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Topics discussed in this episode:

• Hunger as a protective mechanism
• Why we sometimes disconnect from hunger (and how to reconnect to feel full and satisfied longer!)
• The complicated relationship we all have with food
• Breaking the cycle of cravings
• The transition to a healthier lifestyle, one small step at a time
• The impact of exercise on hunger

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Cheryl concludes by emphasizing the significance of understanding and addressing hunger to maintain a healthy lifestyle. She encourages listeners to find the right food combinations and exercise routines that work for them, promoting a healthy relationship with food and body.

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Join Dr. Cheryl Wellness - a private membership for those who want to begin their lifelong wellness journey: https://www.drcherylwellness.com/signup

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Find Dr. Cheryl's healthy "nutella" recipe here.

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Are you doing everything you can to live younger longer™? Take this FREE 5-minute Healthy Diet & Lifestyle Score assessment now and find the gaps in your wellness routine: https://www.drcherylwellness.com/want-your-score/start

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Follow Dr. Cheryl on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drcherylwellness/

Learn more about Dr. Cheryl here: https://www.drcherylwellness.com

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Transcript:  

**Welcome back to The Wellness Table!**

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I'm your host, Dr. Cheryl Bothwell, and I'm here with my producer, Dana. Hey, Dana.

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Hey, Cheryl, how are you today?

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Doing good. How are you? I saw you reunite with your boys from camp. That was a big event. As a mom, you know, and if any moms are out there listening, it was my first time sending my boys to sleep away camp and it was an emotional rollercoaster. But luckily, they had a good time, and I can do it again next summer.

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Oh, good, good. That's awesome.

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Wait, Cheryl, you have some really exciting news for today that I am so excited to hear about. Can you please tell our listeners? What's happening later today?

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Yes, I am getting a baby girl, um, puppy, baby girl. I'm so excited about it, but I am picking her up as soon as we're done recording. I am going to pick up my almost 10-week-old baby puppy. She's a little girl and she's a white standard poodle. I have never had a poodle before, so I think I'm joining a club. It's like, I'm getting connected with all the other people that have bought poodles from this breeder. It seems like a thing, but I was just looking for the perfect puppy that would be at my side during the podcast and would be with me all the time. I wanted a companion that would go everywhere with me. It's like my empty nest plan. When my last baby leaves home, I'm going to get this perfect little puppy, not one that you pick for your kids, but one you get for yourself.

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And so I was like, I wish she could have the ability to be like a therapy dog or go into restaurants and be gentle and loving with people. So I even thought about calling her Joy. I was like, she needs a name that brings me joy. So anyway, I'm pretty excited.

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Does she have a name?

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I think we're gonna call her Khaleesi, from Game of Thrones. It's kind of crazy, the Poodle people are not gonna like me for this because, you know, you're supposed to have a French name for a Poodle. But I was trying to find a name that didn't tie into the stereotype, you know, like the Poodle matches the Owner's hair kind of cut. I'm trying to be like, this is a watchdog, a protector. She's beautiful, powerful, and intelligent. So it just reminded me of Khaleesi and the... I guess it's the silver queen or something in Game of Thrones. Danny is her nickname. So that's kind of what she's...can she's a white Poodle. So, hopefully.

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Yeah, I have never seen Game of Thrones. Clearly, you're a big fan. And I think what you can do is call her Kali. That's kind of French, right? Kali. Kali. Does it sound French?

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Yeah. And that's where I was going, like K H A L I, Kali, you know? My niece is Kali with a C, so I'm like, ah, I got, but Khaleesi is so cute because it's like the silver queen, you know, and it's, um, so I, I was super excited about it. And the Game of Thrones...I'll have to say, like, my son just wanted me to watch it and I don't like any gore. And I don't like anything like that. And I literally watch this because my son sort of likes me to watch certain things just to see, like, he's...yeah.

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So anyway, I watched the entire thing, and then I just have to close my eyes for like...20% of the show, your hands, your hands are covering your eyes bad. Yeah, but I loved Danny and the Khaleesi and her role and just how she played it. So my little poodle is going to walk around like that, just being a little power poodle.

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So that's so exciting. I can't wait to see more on social media and Instagram. I'm sure you're going to be posting on stories. So I have a question. Did you spend any time in the kitchen this weekend?

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I did last week after we even did our podcast on Nutella, and I knew how much you love Nutella. So I got into my...I pulled out my recipe that I have used in take 10 and has been so loved by so many people. And I was looking at all the steps and I'm like, I've got to make this simpler. So I started testing it so that there was no cooking, and it would be like making a smoothie. So I tested Nutella a lot and did a lot of photographs, and I tested what to do and what not to do. And I have come up with a super delicious recipe, and the link is going to be in the show notes here on this podcast, and it will be on our website.

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So, I'm super excited. And then I'm going to show all the different things you can do with it because I turn it into a granola. I turn it into like a dessert topping. Uh, there are so many different things, and I have like a cupcake that's super delicious and I turn it into like a ganache, um, topping. So I have a lot of different things, but the basic Nutella, um, I was having fun with it.

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And I think, you know, my favorite way to eat these things is literally with a spoon. Just a spoon. And here's what I do. I take some of the chocolate, and I take some of the peanut butter together. And then I feel, hey, I'm getting protein.

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No, it's super good. So that's the whole thing of what I love. It's like my hobby is I love taking things that people love because it's got the flavor and then just, I just say, you know, kind of healthy it up a bit.

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But I bet your hazelnut butter, whatever, Nutella, number one, we'll have to come up with a really good name. Cheryl's got to be in that name. And number two, I bet there's good protein in it.

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Yeah, it's the timing of when you bring it in and that's why I had always heated, I had always heated up the chocolate and turned it into a syrup on the stove and put it all, the vanilla and flavoring on the stove and an emulsion essentially and then pour that in while it's blending and that has worked perfectly.

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So now you just eliminate, do you just eliminate the vanilla or you put it on a different timing?

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Yeah. Yeah. I was trying to shortcut it, but, um, I will have both ways, but I have a shortcut way now that does work.

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Awesome. I can't see if you like it.

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I'll have to mail you some.

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Something or just I'm coming over. No, if you have it on your website, which we can find it on your website, then I'll just I'm, I'm a good direction taker. I'll just follow your directions and we all have to try and make it. So you guys try to make it and let's post it to, uh, Cheryl tagger and, and in your stories.

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And let's see what she thinks of your Nutella, but speaking of, but speaking of hunger and speaking of eating and speaking of. Like this idea of eating it every day. It reminded me, I saw an article today that, you know, I'm obsessed with pop culture. I'm obsessed with celebrity news and reality TV. And I'm also very into food and health and bodies and all of that.

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I live in LA. So this article is about a former reality star from the Hills. Her name is Whitney port. And I don't know if you know much about her, but she is. Very followed. She has over 3 million followers on social media. She's been on TV for upwards of probably 15, maybe 20 years now. And she's a mom and she lives here in Los Angeles, but she has been posting.

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She's always been slim, but lately she has been posting pictures of herself that look almost scary, skinny. And so her audience was starting to comment on her Instagram saying, Oh, I'm a little concerned. What's going on here? Does any, and she finally addressed it. So the article that came out on the Daily Mail basically says that she admits to being too skinny.

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She admits that she's shocked by her weight when she stepped on the scale after her husband revealed he's worried about her being too thin. But here's where I need your expert advice because this is her answer. She says, I always feel hungry. But I'm too lazy and picky to feed myself. And I was like, Oh, I need to talk to Cheryl about this.

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You are like the hunger queen, you know, exactly all about food and medicine, et cetera. So tell us, what is this?

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That's right, you mentioned the article to me today. I looked it up and found it incredibly interesting. Our society places a significant emphasis on body image, and it was evident while going through the fans' reactions.

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Absolutely, Dana. Many fans were quick to praise the individual's appearance, particularly their abs, and were curious about the secret behind their looks. However, I also noticed some concerns raised about the pressure and the constant public scrutiny, especially when someone is always photographed in a bikini.

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That constant exposure can undoubtedly be overwhelming. Imagine being under the spotlight all the time, and the pressure it brings. It made me think about something else too.

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What's that?

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Well, when she mentioned feeling hungry but not knowing what to eat, it got me thinking about appetite and our body's natural hunger signals. Hunger is our body's way of protecting us, signaling that it needs calories and nourishment. However, when we ignore these signals or become disconnected from them, we might lose touch with our appetite altogether.

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That's a fascinating point, Dana. So you mean to say that by ignoring or dismissing our hunger signals, we could potentially lose our appetite over time?

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Yes, exactly. It's as if we've trained our bodies to suppress the hunger cues, which could lead to a loss of appetite. Perhaps this is what she's experiencing.

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That makes sense. Our body's physiology adapts to our habits, especially regarding our eating patterns and the number of calories we consume regularly. It's like training for an eating contest, where contestants practice and prepare their bodies for the challenge.

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Absolutely! If someone adopts a highly restrictive calorie diet for a prolonged period, it becomes a sort of training for the body. However, it also changes the way our digestive enzymes function. So even if she were to eat something now, it might not sit well with her due to this altered digestive process.

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That's an important aspect to consider. Food, which should bring joy and happiness, seems to have become a complicated affair for her. It's heartbreaking to think that she might view eating merely as a necessity for survival, rather than a source of enjoyment.

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Precisely. It's crucial for her to connect the dots and rekindle her relationship with food. Perhaps starting with small, gradual steps to bring back her appetite.

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I understand. It sounds like a delicate process. You mentioned that this can lead to anorexia-like behavior, not necessarily anorexia itself but a loss of appetite that offers a sense of control.

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Exactly. When life feels chaotic and overwhelming, some people may resort to controlling their food intake as a way to regain a sense of control over something.

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It's interesting how our relationship with food can reflect deeper emotional struggles. It's not just about weight or appearance; it goes much deeper.

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Absolutely. Food is often linked to emotions and can be a coping mechanism for many. Understanding this aspect is crucial in helping someone in such a situation.

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I feel like the idea of being hungry, because she mentions, "I'm hungry," but I am lazy and picky. Do you think that's a little bit, you know, we're talking a lot about hunger in today's episode. So I like that we're having this real-life conversation about it, but do you think, is there any real truth to that?

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If you're hungry, you're going to find food, right? If you're actually hungry, isn't that your full goal, unless you want to be hungry, unless you like being hungry? What do you think?

I think that when she's saying, "I'm too lazy or I'm too picky," is that she's picky because the appetite's gone. So food doesn't taste good.

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So I'm just saying that I think you get pickier and then it gets harder, and then it feels complicated, and then it begins to feel like work. So then it does feel like, okay, it now all of a sudden this thing that we just ran in and grabbed something to eat, it doesn't feel like work to one person. But for her, she's expressing that she feels too lazy, which means...

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It's work to eat is how I would take that, it has become work. And so, yeah, I think that unfortunately, um, it's really a sad statement, really. Um, and, um, you know, just how many people might have the perfect body that everybody wants people to have or... Um, the pressure of that, but what that actually feels like inside that person's body.

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And that doesn't sound like someone that's on a healthy and happy track. Doesn't mean it isn't for her. I have no idea for her. But in general, I find that feeling hungry is a minor, I just, oh, you'll hear me always refer to it as a, it's like a, a mild pain point. So that means she's chronically in a little bit of pain.

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All the time. That's never going away until that goes away. I mean, people hate to feel hungry and they will usually do anything to take it away. And that's what you're saying is so confusing because it's like all she has to do is eat just a little bit of food and that would go away, but that has been disconnected.

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And so there's some journey there for her. And these are some of the people that. I have loved to work with because you can help them kind of connect the dots that yo-yo dieting and diet culture has created, um, that we don't even realize has been created in our own body. Um, and getting a really healthy appetite.

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And not ever feeling hungry and still being a healthy body weight is really the goal for all of us. That's, that's true happiness.

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And yeah, so what about, you know, I know today's episode, you're going to be talking a lot about hunger because I think there's probably you're the expert here, but there's a spectrum of people.

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There are the people that are hungry by choice. And then there are the people that are hungry constantly and feel that they can't satiate that hunger. What, tell me more about that. Cause I think I'm more in the latter.

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You feel like you can't get on top of the hunger, is what you're saying? I think I think a lot of... I don't know if it's hunger or if it's just, I want to eat.

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I don't know the difference. So I'm excited to talk about that in today's episode because, um, as we think about how do we turn off hunger or what foods can we eat that turn off hunger, getting the right combination will turn that off, um, but when we're not quite getting that formula, and sometimes it's just a small tweak at a meal, um, that we can actually turn off hunger and feel satisfied for four hours.

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So with my program, I'm all about, you know, I call it crushing hunger or turning off hunger naturally with food and staying full for four hours, um, without the desire. And when I mean staying full for four hours, I mean forgetting about food. It doesn't cross your mind. You're actually in this productive mindset because I have this thing.

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Um, I don't know. I describe it and maybe I just see things in a different way, but it's like food is controlling us so much. So we wake up and we're hungry and then we eat a meal and then we didn't get satisfied for four hours and an hour later. We're thinking about something in the kitchen or something at that restaurant or that Starbucks drink or this extra little thing that we want to eat.

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And I feel like we just go on this cycle, then we eat maybe, maybe we have a pick me up in between or have a caffeine or a processed sugar. And we just start this roller coaster of sort of craving and eating and craving and eating. Throughout the day. We're spending so much brain time. I just think it's kind of an interesting way to think of it: thinking about eating the next meal, eating the meal, or thinking about Um, what we're going to eat or we're eating almost all of our waking hours, if you think about these gaps.

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And I find like, how can I be successful in life and do stuff and really get something done and, um, accomplish something or go play and hunger's not, you know, stopping me. And I remember my brother used to say to me when I was young and we'd get a ski ticket to go snow skiing. And he'd be like, He knew I was studying nutrition in college.

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We go up on spring break, and he's like, if you can make a breakfast so that I don't have to eat lunch and I can ski for six hours and not have to stop because we didn't want to lose our ski ticket time. You know, we wanted to ski like straight all the hours that we could. And I think that's what started me on it.

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I was like... Um, trying to create like this meal that everybody could last from 10 to 4 on the slopes and not be hungry. And I think that's where I began the journey was like, what would that meal be that I'm literally having fun and I'm not trying to stop every 30 minutes for a snack. So that, to me, is what drives so much of what I do. That has to be a part of our lifestyle and how we eat is solving that so we're not obsessed with food all the time. And I think there are other people, Dana, that get so tired of it that they just shut it off completely and say, "I don't want to deal with it." And that might be what like Whitney did, um, where she just didn't have time for it.

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So she had to shut it off. So she just shuts off the feeling and just doesn't eat at all and lost her appetite. And is it real hunger or is it just obsession kind of almost over food and what to eat? Well, I call it cravings. Okay. Because I feel like there's a time in hunger and cravings. Yeah. I have a lot of girlfriends that I talk to about this in this, you know, 40-year-old space, and they always joke, it's kind of like almost said as a joke that I wake up thinking about what I'm going to eat next and while I'm eating, I'm thinking about what I'm going to eat next.

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And the second they're eating their dinner, they're already thinking about like, "I can't wait to be done so I can eat dessert." It's, it's, it feels like a cycle that you can't break. It is definitely a hunger cycle, and I think it's one of the most important ones that we start with. Um, and that's why I wanted to talk about it today in our podcast because I feel like as we talk about, um, a healthy lifestyle and how we make that transition, we have to deal with hunger right up front and taste.

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Those are the two that if we leave those out, it becomes a short-term game, and we all go back to our normal routine. But if we can satisfy hunger and people can start to feel like what it's like to feel full for four hours and not even think about it. In my Take 10 program, I used to say to people, "It'll take three days," because it takes about three days for the cycle.

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But by Thursday, Friday, if they come, you know, day three or four program, I would say, I would ask them, like, I would always want to meet people right before a meal, and I would say, "Are you hungry yet? It's been three and a half hours. Where's your hunger?" And they're like, "Really? I didn't even know." And that's when I'm like, "Wait, we're three and a half hours after you've eaten this super great meal.

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That's very health promoting. You loved it. And you're not hungry. Now tell me. If that's something that you'd like to keep doing the rest of your life," and it's like, I don't even have to ask. It's like, if you can show that, and that's what I loved in my program, I could prove it with 30 meals. And by meal nine, you're pretty much done with that cycle.

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It's like literally three days. So people can fast for three days. I'm like, I'm not going to ask you to fast. I'm not going to ask you to do a coffee enema. I'm not going to ask you to do any kind of crazy thing or, you know, only drink water, whatever. Um, I'm literally going to show you that with about nine meals in, it starts to change.

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And that's because of those three days of the digestive enzymes. We talk about that a little bit. Our digestive enzymes sort of match whatever we've been doing. Like if you've been eating high fat or high sugar meals, our body prepares that same, "Okay, I'm pretty sure I know what's coming for lunch. Dana's gonna go for the Nutella, you know, I better be ready for it." And all of your digestive enzymes will, um, pretty much match it. And I know, uh, any moms that have nursed a baby. It's the exact concept. It happens with our muscles as well.

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But if you've nursed a baby and then all of a sudden they hit a growth spurt and you feel like, "Oh, I'm outta milk." And what do they tell you? Just let them keep nursing. Keep nursing comes, keep cooking water, and that milk comes in to match. But it might take a day, um, and the same thing, all of a sudden they stop, you know, and they, they're not, they're not in that little spurt of eating a lot and you're engorged with milk and it takes a little while and your body adjusts.

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That's exactly what your digestive enzymes do for eating. And so it takes, it takes a couple of days to adjust. to a change of what we eat. But once we get through those two or three days, um, and that's why I call them the detox. And so if people go all in and they say, "I'm just going for this, I want to make a full lifestyle change," then, um, I find people, some people day two, some people day three.

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They're feeling full, they're feeling satisfied, and they never want to go back. It's pretty exciting to see it. But I have to say this, Dana, for some people, and I did not know this with all the years of seeing patients and everything and I learned it in my 10-day program where people were with me, I'm with them every day for 10 days and the pattern of a lifestyle change was super interesting because I found that on day 3 and 4 all of a sudden there were like 20, 30% of the people and their rings are tight and they're saying, "I have actually gained weight like 5 pounds and I'm like people wanting to even go home saying, wow, I thought this program I was going to do really well and I've been doing all these things." And you could see them just feeling terrible.

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I had some, a woman one time that came in and she was just cussing everybody out and just super, super angry. And I started to see the pattern like, "Hmm." Um, it was worse than people that were stopping smoking. People that were coming off drugs. And it was sugar. And I began to see the pattern of people that didn't even realize.

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And a lot of times it was vegan. Some of the people that were on the vegan diet because a lot of times they'll move over to more sugar. You know, the vegan diet is Oreo cookies are on the vegan diet. And so it's, it had nothing to do with what diet they were on. But it's amazing how many people eat a lot of processed sugar and don't even realize it and that cycle just really because now we're spiking blood sugar and it's going to drop quickly and we just begin to get into a cycle of now I'm hungry again in an hour or two and so I found that after day five keep drinking the water.

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And we saw this whole, this whole cycle clear. And so it's quite interesting how making a lifestyle change and changing what we eat is, um, is a thing. And I didn't realize it's challenging and to have support with that is something that I try to do to help people, here's the expectation. And some people have no problem at all. So Dana, like if you came and you went through it and you were in the sugar cycle group and somebody else comes in and on day one, they're like…

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Not having any problem at all. Um, you almost think you're doing something wrong. Like, what's wrong with me? How come the only, I'm the only one? And I found that to be interesting too, is that sometimes we feel like, "Huh, this is, this is a little harder than I thought." So food's complicated. And, um, but definitely, I found that every single person by day 10, it took about 10 days to really see that they all came through whatever it was.

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And as they began to eat less processed foods, eat the right combinations. And I have the plate that I talk about in the Dr. Cheryl membership. And that plate is what is that food combination? Because when you look at the score, the score is the formula for what we want to eat every day, the 10 foods and the 10 habits.

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But the combination to not feel hungry and like the taste is a whole another deal. So my Nutella, Dana, would help you with that sugar cycle. You wouldn't have to, you could eat Nutella, and that's what people are like, "Oh, I actually like this better." So I, then for the fun, I try to recreate everything that people love and then turn it into something just a little tweak or just twist it just a little bit and make it so that matches the hunger-crushing combo. It tastes delicious and um, we start to do really well.

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Dana: So, a couple of things, a couple of questions. Is there, and you can answer these of course separately, but is there a perfect formula or a perfect meal?

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That you could suggest, for example, if someone is just wanting to get started to start crushing their hunger, and they, before they joined the membership, if they're trying to do it on their own, but you guys seriously, all the stuff is in the membership. So I would highly suggest getting the help because if you're anything like me, you need to hold someone's hand.

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But if you have to do this on your own, is there some sort of a perfect breakfast, for example, or a perfect lunch or perfect dinner that can get you through this? That's my first question. And my second question is exercise. And how does that increase your hunger? What do you do about that? Cause I know when I don't work out, I'm not as hungry, but when I have like a killer high-intensity training day, now I want to eat more.

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Do I eat more, or should I stick in that same pattern?

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Yeah, these are great questions, Dana, and I think that, um, you know, with the exercise, since you just finished talking about that one, I'll hit that one, is that we definitely see with high-intensity exercise an increase in hunger, and, um, a lot of people will recommend, like, you've heard of the Zone 2, or getting that heart rate no more than 40% of the VO2 max, or, um, whatever, um, how you calculate, um, that, and we can talk about that in another episode, but essentially walking at maybe three and a half miles an hour is essentially what we're talking about.

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Um, that some people do a lot better with that if they really are getting their hunger. You know, kicked in from a high-intensity workout. But I definitely find that to be a challenge for women because when women work out, a lot of times they don't get the results that men do, and they can get very discouraged.

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And you'll see women beginning to almost gain weight when they work out. And um, it's not just that they're gaining muscle, but they actually, this is actually connected to hunger. So for people that actually feel more hungry after they exercise, the number one thing is maybe do less intensity and see how that changes things because it might be too much. And I really like the HIIT training for that because your intensity are short little bursts. So you're doing, you know, cycles and we talk about this in the Dr. Cheryl membership is HIIT training. And, um, so you're really doing six bursts of 30 seconds of just as hard as you can go.

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The rest of the, it's only 15 minutes and it's like two minutes and then just walking and then 30 seconds. Go crazy and kind of hit your top and, uh, to exhaustion and just do that six times. And for some people that helps you reach your goal, but it might not boost hunger quite so much. So there, there's really a thing to that.

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I want to say another thing about exercise, I think super important is that we have a surge of growth hormone, which is so, I mean, people want to inject growth hormone. People would come to us all the time, like, "How can I get growth hormone?" And, um, injections and to stay younger, longer kind of, and, um, so I have a lot to say about growth hormone, um, and future podcasts because I'm kind of passionate about it.

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I had a daughter born with a growth hormone deficiency and that's my child that I lost, um, at the age of 17. So her journey and her story is very interesting. And I just. Just because of her deficiency in growth hormone, I began to really learn a lot about it. More than I wanted to know about growth hormone.

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But growth hormone surge comes after we exercise about 2 hours. So if you could exercise and then wait 2 hours before you eat and just drink a lot of water, that's going to be your optimal results from exercise. Whatever exercise you do is waiting 2 hours, and then you'll get this cycle... It's like an injection of growth hormone.

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And so that's just a thing that... I like to tell women because now you're going to get the best absolute results, and some people can't do it. And so then I say, then you'd be better off to slow the intensity down and hit the two-hour mark of not eating. So for me, the goal is to not eat two hours after exercise and then figure out what that exercise is for you. So for some people, it is just a fast walk or a zone two, um, and others can do the HIIT training and get through that. But if you do like a 60-minute crazy cycle class or something like that, um, for some people they can't go the two hours. So I think the two hours after exercise and not eating and just really hydrating.

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Is as important as the exercise itself. So you get the maximum benefit. So that's that long version of that question. Sorry. Um, no, it's good. It's interesting. And on the food combination, that's the plate. Um, and I think where I would start with that, um, Dana is a couple of things before what's on the plate, and that is timing and volume.

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So I like to start there is, it takes, we have hunger hormones, we have leptin that turns on. Her. Hunger makes us feel hungry, and we have ghrelin that turns it off, and ghrelin is actually located in the stomach, and so we get, we have this, um, vagus nerve that's like the size of a shoestring that goes from the stomach to the brain, and we're learning a lot about the vagus nerve right now, and it's kind of exciting, I'm learning more and more, we're seeing more research on that, um, but that brain-gut connection, um, is really becoming a thing.

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We've talked about it for a lot of decades, but now we're really seeing the, the proof of that. So when we've talked in the past that it takes 20 minutes to turn off hunger, there is some time between, no matter what we're eating in those 20 minutes, um, we will not feel full when no matter what we eat in those 20 minutes.

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So if you're a fast eater, this is one of the reasons we talk about putting the fork down and all these things we've heard over the years. But if you're a fast eater, slowing down how you eat is super important because you'll naturally turn off hunger. So with that, um, but for Whitney and what we've talked about today in the news, I talk about if somebody is overnourished, slow down on your eating.

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If someone's undernourished, or you're trying to put weight on a child, for instance, or somebody that really needs to gain muscle, gain body, just eating more calories, it's important for them to eat more concentrated. So I'll give them a smoothie with calories in a more concentrated way so that they can eat.

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In that 20-minute window before their hunger turns off, so I use that to look at who I'm talking to, and that's how we personalize. Is that, are you overnourished or undernourished? And think about the timing of how you eat. So that's like a simple, easy thing of just understanding how hunger turns on and off is timing.

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And then volume, takes about four cups of volume, and then we'll turn off hunger based on ghrelin. It's just stretching the stomach, the actual stretching of the stomach. And so that's a thing as well. So I always talk about take the 20 minutes if you're overnourished, slow down eating, try to take 30 minutes to eat, um, and let your body's natural hormones do their thing and listen to them and get in tune to that.

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And I think that's a super important thing for all of us to do, and then it's the combination of what's on your plate. So, um, a lot of people are talking about the foods and things that turn on or off hunger, but I want to see this on a McDonald's knows this best, so they know the food industry knows how to deal with our hunger extremely well.

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So if I was a food company, I, the science of hunger, they know it better than anyone. So feeling full feels so good to us and not feel hungry for four hours that if I get a double cheeseburger now, that allows me to drink that big gulp sugar soda. So, um, we did a lot of detox and addiction recovery. Um, with take 10 and, um, one of the things I learned, I didn't know this before, but if I'm using cocaine, if I drink alcohol, I can use more cocaine.

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And I began to see the patterns of cocaine were sugar. Sugar and cocaine are almost the same, just about the same to recover from. It's, it's very much that I'm putting sugar and cocaine very much in the same bucket. It's just the legal version. Um, and I see that because if I now want to eat more processed, refined sugars that are super hard on our body to deal with, Um, I can do what McDonald's does and give you a double cheeseburger, double the cheese, double the burger.

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Now I can put all this protein at you and you can still eat these processed foods. Now I can do the fries and the white flour and I can do that combination and feel full. And that just loads us up for this connection to it tastes good. I feel full. And I begin to connect that if I'm going to be healthy, I'm going to be starving.

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I got to feel hungry again. I've got to go back on a diet. I have to feel deprived. And we have kind of programmed that McDonald's hits the spot and I'm using McDonald's just because Annie. Fast food restaurant, even the Snicker bar, the popular bars, bars that do very well. Um, I often see if I know what candy bar you like, then I kind of know a lot about how your body works.

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And so if you need the Snickers versus can you just eat like the straight milky way? Well, if you can, your body's doing a really good job of compensating for refined sugar. But if your body isn't as good at it, like mine isn't, and I had to eat Cheetos to balance that. Um, then Snickers came in and said, Hey, we'll put some peanuts in here.

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And now more of you can eat it. And so that's what McDonald's did with a double cheeseburger. And so if we can, when we start to look at these different diets, we look at the standard American diet, we're just trying to be full and love what we eat. And we've connected that that is happy. And it just feels right.

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It feels like listening to our body. And, you know, we think about let's listen to your body. Well, if I were to listen to my body, I might feel good if I was on a pattern of eating there. You know, like for months and months and months. Now, if you went there and just ate tomorrow and you haven't eaten there, you'd probably be sick.

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But I'm talking about if your body's used to that, it's really hard to get somebody to change with that. So I took on, you know, the study, the perfect dollar bill. Now I want to make a counterfeit. Um, I took, I don't know it in health. If you want to, you know, the people that make counterfeit dollars, they studied the dollar bill.

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Because I want to make a counterfeit dollar, right? I just said, well, if I want people to really be healthy and to feel good and to feel full, it's I've got to follow McDonald's. But like Nutella, but I've got to make it healthier, but I can't give up the taste and I need to make sure I have that hunger formula so that you feel full.

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And then you're also improving your health. So when people feel that, they're not going to have the 95% that go off their diet within two years. We won't have those kinds of statistics when someone starts to feel good and I can create the McDonald's effect with healthy food. Um, and so that's kind of where my food combination comes in.

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And so, I notice a lot of people that are out there saying, you know, we talk about protein. Protein shuts off hunger. So, if we're just looking at the formula now of food, protein shuts off hunger, any type of protein. Protein powder, you can have steak, you can have a burger, you can have salmon. You can have, I talked to someone yesterday and they're like, I just feel so much better when I have salmon.

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Like, I just feel better. So my, that's my body telling me I need it. Um, and so the other is, um, fiber. Fiber, again, fills up volume. So we've got that four cups of volume. So if we eat less processed food, I find that when I was serving these 30 meals, the biggest complaint, I mean, people wanting to make an appointment with me individually to say, do I have to eat all this food?

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I can't eat it. And my meals were like 550 calories. Um, and they, they were eating half of them and I'm like, you, you, you have to eat more. So I spent so much time saying we have to eat more and they would be like, I can't chew anymore. And there are people that just. get fatigued from eating whole foods.

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How much chewing can you do? So I find it to be interesting that when we're eating more whole plant foods, we're getting more fiber and we actually

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have a hard time getting people to eat enough calories. Um, it's one of the, I have to create smoothies and things to sometimes because they just get full too quick.

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It's that 20 minutes, they're chewing and after 20 minutes, they're done. And so I found that to be an interesting challenge, just like how do I get people to eat enough, um, when it's whole plant foods. So we have fiber that turns off hunger. We have time, if it's more than 20 minutes, that's going to turn off hunger.

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We have volume, we have protein that turns off hunger, and we also have fat that turns off hunger. And so, people can take that and create all kinds of diets. Look at the keto diet. You know, you can take the keto diet, and they're saying, let's get rid of all the carbs, and now we're doing protein and fat, and you're going to be full, and you will be.

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You will be full and, but we need to be full and we need to be healthy, and we need to look at how our blood sugar is balanced, insulin resistance. But we're going to keep talking about these things as we go, but we also need to turn on our body's natural health defense and our whole system. Looking at, are we metabolically well?

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So there's a metabolic wellness as well. And so we want to deal with the taste. We want to make sure we feel full, but we also want to look at balanced blood sugar, insulin resistance that gets our waist circumference where we want it to be. Um, and also, are we eating so that our body is metabolically healthy?

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And that combination is, and then food we love. So that's really the formula, um, of feeling full. So the plate, if you were thinking about breakfast now, I gave you the long way round to that Dana, sorry about that. Um, is that you would look for fiber. So what fiber, so I could eat a complex carb. So you could have oatmeal, and some people would have oatmeal in the morning.

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And, um, oats are never processed. So no matter what form they are, they're always a whole grain. Um, and then you might put berries on it and milk. And a lot of people will do that. And for me, I will be hungry in two hours. Some people two and a half. That is not a four-hour meal. So you have to look at how can I add.

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I'm watching people on social media and stuff. They're putting eggs in their oats. They're putting, uh, protein powder in their oats. Um, and again, what are they doing? They're trying to turn off hunger with, um, more protein or more fat. So for me, I would add nuts to that because that's a healthy protein and healthy fat all in one package.

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So you can put 20 nuts with that oatmeal or the nut butter like a just that blended up nut butter or the Nutella recipe I just did. Um, and you would see that that meal would last you four hours. So we just test it, Dana, and we create your formula, sort of refine it.

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Do you have a, um, kind of a within terms of like you just mentioned nuts, right?

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So the first thing I know, I think about because I'm a huge nut butter person, it's calories. Is there a calorie component to this at all? I know there's a volume component, but is there a calorie component to not being hungry? Yeah, is there something about, you know, if you're not, you could be eating a big volume of food, just say like four cups of spinach, but you're not getting that same amount of calories maybe that you would if you were eating four cups of salmon. I don't even know. So do you, do you even look at that at all?

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Yeah. And that's really the, absolutely. 'Cause I think when you're eating whole plant foods, um, you don't have to count calories. Um, we try to just get enough and you don't need to worry. You can eat nuts and eat, but you're eating them at meals and you're not snacking.

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So a lot of times people are thinking about the calories of nuts and I'm snacking. But we find people are afraid to eat nuts, but then they'll be eating meat that has much more fat. It's, it's kind of an interesting thing. When I mentioned nuts, people get worried about calories, um, and yet we need calories to be full.

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So calories are interesting. Our body doesn't like, um, as we're eating sort of like measuring up and calculating what we've had this many calories. So ding, now you're full. So calories do not equate. to fullness. It is protein, fiber, and the fat in those calories, what they're made up of. So a combination of, I always say two cups of fruits and vegetables, whole fruits and vegetables, that gets you started.

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So that would be my step one for this week is I would say, um, it's sort of my, I'm always like get two cups of fruits and vegetables with every meal. Start there. Now just start that and try that for a week. And that's just my simple, just try two cups of fruits and vegetables. And you'll be surprised that people will tell me how hard that is to actually do.

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Um, and just to add it to anything else that you eat. And then I just add the next step. Then, um, if we're looking at. Uh, adding 10 to 20 nuts with each meal, and that's your protein and your fat. And um, and again, we want our healthy plant fats. Like I put flaxseed at least once a day, ground flaxseed on say my yogurt fruit bowl or I would put that in the oats.

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So I'm getting these omega 3 fatty acids that are so powerful for inflammation. Um, but as we put it all together, eating more whole grains, that's our fibers coming in fruits and vegetables, but also beans and whole grains. These foods are all loaded with fiber, so we can eat more of them and not be worried about the calories.

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The only time we have to worry about calories is when we refine something. And I'll add this. I count, um, like any animal food as a refined food. The animal ate the original plant. Use the carbohydrate for its energy and excretes the fiber. So there's no fiber, um, in eating the muscle. So eating the fat from the animal.

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So we're eating the fat and the muscle and it does feel good. If you've grown up eating that, that's your typical diet. Um, it will definitely shut down hunger, but we definitely see the more plant foods, whole plant foods that we eat, not the Oreo cookies and not a refined. Uh, plant diet, but the more whole foods that we can add, that's where I focus, is eat those things that you love, but do more whole plant foods with each meal.

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And that will give you fiber and then always add a plant protein to every meal. So that's like the nuts or the beans. Every meal includes something of that. And you'll begin to see this, the shift and your body adjusts. It builds a healthy gut. It begins to metabolically change. Your health, blood pressure comes down, and waist circumference comes down, and it starts improving insulin resistance, um, and we just see people's health turn around, but more than anything else, they feel good, they feel empowered, so that's sort of my message is, how do we do that and love what we're eating, and how can we go find delicious, delicious food, and just like I did with the Nutella, you know, just kind of, I just say healthy it up a little bit and how can we score up and do more of the foods and the simple habits every day that make us well.

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Um, and that's what being healthy is. So I'm super excited about, um, sharing these with you on future podcasts. And that's really the message, Dana. And I hope maybe this week, um, you can try the Nutella and see how that works for helping you keep full and decreasing some of the cravings.

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I will. I will. Absolutely. So everyone, you can get all the information that Cheryl's talking about the show notes, everything below, and it's all on the website. It's on her blog and on YouTube. Cheryl, thank you so much for all this information. Now I feel like I have to go and assemble a perfect plate. Awesome. See you next week.

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Cheryl: Bye guys!